[Intro]

MEGAN LUEDKE: Hello I’m Megan Luedke.

JENS BRINGSJORD: Good evening, I’m Jens Bringsjord. This is Design Atlas.

[Music: Theme Song]

ML: Tonight:

JB: The art of typography. A new book titled Expressive Type Today invites us to view type not just as text, but as an evocative medium for storytelling and emotion, showcasing work that redefines how we see the written word.

ML: Small-scale creativity. Illustrator and printmaker Kelly Belter transforms everyday objects like stamps and matchbooks into intricate works of art, proving that even the mundane can inspire.

JB: Design’s critical role in catastrophe. We examine the Notre Dame Cathedral fire, where a poorly designed alarm system turned a preventable incident into a billion-dollar disaster. What lessons can designers learn from this failure?

ML: Revival of a classic. Lukas Schneider’s digital reimagining of Matthew Carter’s iconic Airport typeface breathes new life into a 1960s masterpiece, making it relevant in the digital age.

JB: And, the bold type of superheroes. Marvel’s lettering history—from Ant-Man’s playful shrinking font to Wolverine’s claw-slashing chaos—proves that even the smallest design details can tell the biggest of stories.

JB: Design Atlas, the January 30th edition. The podcast that proves even a typeface can be a superhero in its own right.

[Music: Theme—Fades Out]

NEW BOOK: EXPRESSIVE TYPE TODAY

JB: Typography—it’s everywhere. A constant companion to the visuals that surround us. But when was the last time you stopped to marvel at a typeface, to feel the emotion a single letterform can convey? In a world of digital clutter and fleeting attention spans, Counter-Print’s new book, Expressive Type Today, challenges us to see typography not as a backdrop, but as a bold and transformative art form.

JB: Having recently released, the book titled Expressive Type Today dives into the world of evocative type design—celebrating designers who use typography to push boundaries and craft messages that stick. It’s a collection that feels less like a design guide and more like an invitation. An invitation to explore type as a tool for storytelling, for mood-setting, and for cutting through the noise.

JB: One standout example comes from Studio Kiln, whose work for the RTS 2023 event Too Much To Watch takes playful typography to new heights. Balloon-like letters, jostling for space, mirror the overwhelming flood of media we face daily. It's a type that isn’t just seen—it’s felt. And that’s the power of expressive typography: it turns communication into an experience.

JB: But it’s not all about modern experimentation. The book also takes us into typography’s storytelling roots. Take Ingrid Picanyol Studio’s identity for the restaurant Masvell. Their custom typeface blends tradition with contemporary flair, inspired by Bonaventura Bassegoda’s calligraphy. It’s a love letter to the past and a vision for the future, encapsulating a rich cultural heritage while giving it new life. From the fluid designs of food brands to the kinetic energy of sports logos, every typeface in the book Expressive Type Today offers a glimpse into what’s possible when design becomes art.

JB: This book isn’t just about admiring great design—it’s a call to action. A reminder to think of type not as an afterthought, but as a vital, living medium that can engage, inspire, and even surprise. As Dowling puts it, expressive typography is the antidote to fleeting digital content, bringing depth and humanity back into our visual world.

JB: So, next time you see a letterform, pause. Look closer. Because in the hands of a daring designer, type isn’t just text—it’s a story waiting to be told.

A VISIONARY ILLUSTRATOR AND PRINTMAKER

Featuring Guest: Kelly Belter

JB: Kelly Belter is a visionary illustrator and printmaker who finds magic in the smallest of formats. From stamps to vintage matchbooks and coins, her work celebrates everyday moments through intricate, colorful designs that transform the mundane into the extraordinary.

Her publications, including Small Pleasures and her Risograph calendars, highlight her ability to distill complex scenes into simple yet impactful compositions.

Through her innovative approach, Kelly has established herself as a thought leader in the world of small-scale illustration, inspiring a new appreciation for the artistry found in everyday life.

We reached Kelly in Seoul, South Korea.

ML: How do you approach finding creativity in everyday, often overlooked objects and moments? 

KB: The easiest way to do that is like being kind of aware of my surroundings. And that sounds like really simple. But I think especially in Seoul, you know, everyone's on their phone all the time, like walking on the street, looking at your phone or like listening to music or listening to a podcast. And I love doing that too. But sometimes just walking around or going somewhere and not having any of that stuff and looking around and actually paying attention. I think it's almost yeah, it can be very surprising when you do that. And oh, like, I live in this neighborhood, but I've never noticed, like this street corner before or like this charming thing.

KB: Usually I will, I do always have my phone with me. I will, like, take photos. Just quick snaps on my phone. They're not super esthetic or anything, but kind of create an archive for myself. Of all the stuff that I see or like passed by when I'm trying to be a little more aware of my surroundings. And I think that's something that in the last few years I've been trying to do a little more intentionally, just in general, as being a little more present and aware of what's going on around me.

KB: And, through doing that, I think I found a lot more interesting things in the like, everyday kind of world. 

ML: That's lovely, I love that. So what draws you specifically to sort of the smaller formats like stamps and matchbooks and coins as a canvas for your work? 

KB: I think that having, like, a small space is really for me, it kind of feels a little more approachable. First of all, I mean, that may be obvious, but, for example, I have a sketchbook like a daily sketchbook and it has 365 pages. So I do one, like pretty much every day. And to make that a lot easier, I would like to paste a post-it note in the page and just draw on that. So instead of having to draw on the whole page, there's just like one small little square to draw on. And I think for me it's one. One thing is that it helps me not feel overwhelmed and just focus on one small thing at a time. But also, I do really like the aspect, like the puzzling aspect of when you have less space, you have to be a little more economical or you can't put in as much detail.

KB: So you have to kind of figure out how to make something legible and how to make it work with kind of more limited colors or more limited detail. And I find that like a really fun and a satisfying process. So I think that's what kind of draws me to the smaller format. 

ML: So why don't we sort of dive into your process, like, could you walk us through how you eat, what a typical project looks like, and like how you layer colors and textures especially, and maybe even provide sort of an explanation for those who may not know what a Risograph is, what that whole process looks like.

KB: Yeah. So I'll start with what Risograph is. It's, type of printing technique that is very similar to silkscreen in some ways, because you print one color at a time. However, a machine does that instead of a human hand. So while there is a lot of handling of the machine, like, we do have to edit a lot of the settings and you have to use different colors and change out the print drums and stuff like that. You don't have to physically print yourself. So it's a lot faster for like making things like books or stationery or posters, stuff like that. It's originally from Japan and was used a lot in like, I think the 80s and 90s and like churches or like offices instead of like regular copy machines, before laser coffee machines. So there are a lot of like vintage Risograph machines around, like a lot of people have found them used and and now they've become pretty popular, I think the last like ten years, on like, designers and artists and, and, small presses and stuff.

KB: But I'm lucky enough to have one in our studio that I bought second hand. And I usually if I'm making a project for the Risa Graff, I. Well, with all my work, I design it all digitally first. And when I'm doing that, because I have a background in silkscreen printing, I'm really used to just separating, doing the color separation beforehand because it just makes life so much easier.

KB: So all of my layers are, you know, separated by color and, with the Risa graph, because I already know what colors I have, it makes it even simpler. I have four colors at the studio, or sometimes I usually print with like 2 or 3 colors. So I'll just use those when I'm preparing the image. And then it makes it really simple to move from my file or like my PSD file to the Risograph and print those layers.

KB: So it's usually like a brief overview of how the process works. A lot of like digital work over here, organizing and then the printing process with the Risa graph is pretty, like, straightforward. Thankfully, there are some problems you can run into with Risograph printing, but usually it's pretty smooth sailing. Thankfully. 

ML: Good. Yeah. No, that's great. Is there any sort of special techniques that you might use in either, you know, when creating the files or, thinking about the artwork that you're going to do, that influence the types of work that you do. 

KB: Yeah. I think, because like the Risograph ink is, oil based. It's like a kind of additive. So, you know, when you mix colors, you get a third color. And so that's like a really fun thing to play around with when you're designing the prints or like the illustrations, because you can get a lot of interesting effects by taking advantage of the fact that when you layer two colors, that you're going to get like this third color or like this third effect. So like creating shadows through, you know, maybe you're only using two colors, but because you overlap in a certain way, it looks like you have all of this other stuff going on, which is really fun.

ML: I think you've mentioned, in either articles or in the past, that you may have, used, or created brushes, from sort of you scanned textures. How does that enhance your work? And like, what does that process look like? 

KB: So usually the process of it is I often it's like when I'm making something and I just feel like something's missing, like something. Because with a lot of digital drawing, it can't feel very flat sometimes or like it's lacking texture like handmade feeling. And of course, through printmaking you can kind of like get some of that. But sometimes I like, really want that to be in the actual, like digital version as well. So when I feel like something like that is missing, if I don't have a brush already or like a texture that I think works with that, I will then like try to find something in, scan it in, and I kind of just add some, some dimension to like otherwise what can be kind of flat, especially like when printing in blocks of color.

KB: So I think that's why I kind of seek that out. And, and usually it's just like a bit of scanning or taking photos, manipulating it and then making, like usually, Procreate brushes. 

ML: So you often are working on a, like, small scale, illustrations, that must come with challenges. Like how do you navigate those constraints? I know you mentioned earlier that it sort of frees up the dauntingness of something large. But there any constraints that come with working so small with the printing process? 

KB: Usually it's fine, but sometimes just practically like if something is off, it makes a bigger difference because like, tiny little like Miss Registration and a big image, maybe you don't notice as much, but in like a bunch of small images it becomes kind of severe. So that's something I definitely have to be a lot more careful about, when actually printing. And then when it comes to illustrating, one thing that can be difficult is because often I like to use a bunch of images in one project together. So just trying to make sure that there's a consistency between them, like it could look really good by itself. 

KB: But maybe if this illustration is a lot more detailed, then like this one is super simple. It maybe doesn't look right together. So trying to find a level of consistency among a lot of small images can be hard, sometimes compared to making one large image that of course there's going to be consistency within the image.

ML: What advice would you give to emerging illustrators? Sort of, who wants to, you know, translate everyday observations into our work? 

KB: You can just start like an archive, like, instead of feeling like, okay, I'm going to start just like making these finished, like, fully realized illustrations based on, things that I see and all of that, like just start with collecting and, like, creating an archive of resources and materials that, like, you can draw from.

KB: So for me, that's like taking photos when I'm out and about. But like other people could even be like scrapbooking or like saving ephemera, like stuff that you find on the ground or whatever. It could be like all kinds of things, right? So kind of keeping some kind of like weekly or daily record of the stuff that you see or.

Yeah, just having a folder on your phone and album, maybe a Pinterest board, something that you update frequently. I think that helps a lot. And then later when you want to make work, you can just look at that and it'll make the process a lot easier. 

ML: What's next for you? Like, what is your, what are your goals for this year as we're starting the year and like, what are you excited about and what are you excited to work on next?

KB: Yeah, I think it's always so hard to answer in a way, because I think I always get really excited about, you know, projects. And there's like a million things I want to do. But I guess if I had to focus on, I guess, a couple of things. I definitely want to create that, a couple more like intentional artist book projects this year.

KB: So this last year I did, the sale, our book fair, and then this coming year, I'd like to do that again. That's kind of like the main art book there in Seoul. But I'd like to do that. And as well as a couple other art book fairs in Seoul and maybe like in China or in Tokyo, there's an art book there or in Taiwan.

KB: So like, maybe kind of pop around a little bit. But, for those books that I'd like to make a specific artist book that kind of compiles a lot of the type of like, small illustrations I've been doing in an interesting way. I'm still kind of figuring out exactly how to lay all that out, but, that's kind of one of the main projects I want to focus on, and I'm definitely making some more like small zine or like stationery projects along the way.

KB: And I want to kind of get into linocut printing this year. Yeah. I think like when talking about that hand handmade element, when it comes to printing, in my studio, as lovely as it is, unfortunately there's not enough room to have the full, like, screen printing set up of my dreams. I have a very small setup, like in my house, but it's kind of impractical to make, like, multicolored screen prints.

KB: So I do want to get into maybe some linocut stuff and see if that's like one solution. Again, not only making small work, but maybe working in a small space. So I think that's one of my goals for this coming year, is just to like, experiment a little bit with the printing processes. 

ML: Well, it's been a pleasure speaking with you, and we are so happy that you were able to join us today on Design Atlas.

KB: Yeah thank you so much. 

ML: Bye. 

JB: Kelly Belter’s work invites us to see the beauty in the details, transforming everyday objects into captivating pieces of art. We reached her in Seoul, South Korea.

THE $900 MILLION UX MISTAKE AT NOTRE DAME CATHEDRAL

JB: Notre Dame Cathedral—it’s an icon of history, faith, and architectural splendor. But on the evening of April 15, 2019, it became the center of a devastating event that could have been avoided. A fire erupted, and while the flames consumed the historic structure, it was a design failure—not just the fire itself—that led to a billion-dollar disaster.

The story begins with a fire alarm system meant to safeguard the cathedral. At 6:18 p.m., a new security guard, unfamiliar with its cryptic interface, faced a warning code: ZDA-110-3-15-1. The message was intended to pinpoint the fire’s location, but the system’s design turned critical information into an indecipherable puzzle. Miscommunication followed, and the fire went undetected for a full 25 minutes—time enough for it to rage out of control.

This isn’t just a story about a cathedral; it’s a lesson about design. Systems, no matter how advanced, fail when they don’t account for the people using them. Here was a tool meant to protect a priceless treasure, yet its complexity rendered it useless in the moment it was needed most. The tragedy of Notre Dame highlights a universal truth: even the most sophisticated technology is only as effective as its ability to communicate clearly and intuitively with its users.

Imagine, for a moment, if the design had been intuitive. A clear map, a visual alert, or even a straightforward text instruction could have saved Notre Dame’s spire and its priceless artifacts. This isn’t hypothetical—it’s a testament to the power of thoughtful, human-centered design. When we ignore it, the consequences can be catastrophic, even when intentions are good.

So, next time you encounter a piece of design—a door, a form, a piece of software—pause. Consider not just how it looks, but how it works. Because the story of Notre Dame reminds us that design isn’t just about beauty or complexity; it’s about function, communication, and ultimately, trust. In the hands of a thoughtful designer, even the simplest system can save history. Without it, even the grandest structures can crumble.

AIRPORT TYPEFACE

Featuring Guest: Lukas Schneider

JB: In the realm of typography, few projects combine meticulous research and modern revival like the work of Lukas Schneider. As the designer behind the digital revival of the iconic Airport typeface—originally crafted by Matthew Carter in the 1960s for Heathrow Airport signage—Lukas has breathed new life into this mid-century classic. His process blends historical inquiry, technical precision, and artistic vision to make the typeface relevant in the digital age. We reached Lukas at his studio in Frankfurt, Germany.

ML: In our research leading up to this interview, we've read that your journey with the airport typeface began with a chance encounter with a vintage board game. What about, the type on that box captured your attention? 

LS: Yeah. Basically, as a type designer, you always look for inspiration. If you take a walk, or if you visit a museum, or if you're traveling, you always look for a type. And, so one day I just stumbled across this vintage board game. From the late 70s, while I visited my mother's house. Basically, the type on the board was a sans serif typeface, which looked like a rounded version of Helvetica. This version of Athletica was also issued in the late 70s. So as far as I know, this could fit into the vintage board game, but it had some irregularities.

LS: Like, first of all, a large x height. So the, the, the lowercase letters were pretty high. And, it had pretty flat squashed dots on the letter I and the strange highlight effect, on each letter. And, when I compared it to a Helvetica, I realized that the type on the board game didn't match, and I thought it could be part of a letter set's catalog also because of the highlight effect.

LS: But I could not find it. And, I called a good friend of mine, Florian Hartwig from Berlin, who is really an expert when it comes to identifying type. And he was, of course, able to identify as he had a lot of catalogs, and he found out that it was a derivative of Airport, the typeface that Matthew Carter had designed in the early 60s for the signs of London Airport. This was basically the point where, when the whole story began, 

ML: The origins of the typeface. What airport is it? Heathrow? 

LS: Yes, exactly. It was the oceanic terminal. 

ML: Cool. So it's a connection to like, men's mid-century modern Britain. You know, how did this context shape your approach to the revival of it? 

LS: Yeah. Basically when you start reviving a typeface, then you try to gather all the materials you can get. But in the case of the airport letters, there weren't simply many examples. So basically, you only have one important book, which is pretty rare, like a science system manual from the founders of pentagram. Luckily, I was able to get a copy. There's another book called Airport Wayfinding. From two German editors. And, last but not least, there's a BBC documentary, where you can spot a few of the airport signs and you somehow travel back in the 60s in a way.

LS: But, of course, I wanted to keep the spirit of the 60s, but I also wanted to add something to it, like to make it contemporary. Like by adding more weights, expanding the character sets, and also presenting it in a modern contemporary way. 

ML: So your version of the airport typeface includes, two subfamilies, Airport and Airport X. Could you explain, like, the differences and, what your creative decisions were behind both of those? 

LS: Basically the difference is the x height. The original had a pretty large x height, and also very short ascenders and dissenters, so it's better to use it in large sizes. This also became obvious when I looked at the original specimens while I tested my own digital version and layouts, it became more and more clear that I will need something that works better for longer texts and, this ended up in the subfamily Airport X. Airport X, basically normalizes the original design, by slightly lowering the x side.

LS: And at the same time I made the centers in these centers larger, which makes certain shapes more open and more legible in smaller sizes. And the whole thing is, is more usable for longer, long texts. 

ML: So the original, airport typeface, sort of faded into obscurity after 1970, sort of being overshadowed by Helvetica. What motivated you to bring it back now? And how do you see it fitting into today's design landscape? 

LS: Yeah, actually, there were several reasons which motivated me. First of all, it was designed for a world famous airport almost everyone knows of Heathrow. And second, the design legends like Matthew Carter, but also Colin Forbes, who is, have been involved in the project.

LS: And Forbes was a founding member of Pentagram, which is one of the leading design agencies for decades. So to me, it has an important historical relevance, not only from a type designer's perspective, but also the fact that there wasn't a digital revival yet. And I think the fact that, Airport can be classified as neo grotesque, like accident, grotesque or helvetica, makes it perfect.

LS: It perfectly fits today's design landscape. It's just a timeless typeface. And, you can use it for many cases, not necessarily wayfinding, but also corporate design or whenever you need a typeface that is unobtrusive. 

ML: Beyond just like the typeface itself, your work includes a vast range of arrows and symbols. How do these extras contribute to airports' typeface versatility and wayfinding and design? 

LS: Yeah. For me, adding arrows and circles gives both a natural consequence. Yeah. These things were simply necessary. Like if you want to design a proper wayfinding system as a type designer, you also design these additional loops and glyphs in such a way that they match to the basic character set. So related to the weights or width or size, a user of the typeface can just just type them right away.

LS: And also like to choose from a range of weights. If you find them too thick, then you can just use a lighter weight, or you can adjust the weight by using the variable font to like, like to adjust it to your personal preference. While I worked on the revival, I was also thinking about how to present it to the public and tell the story when I'm finished.

LS: And therefore it was also nice to have arrows and circle numbers and letters, which I could play with while designing the microsite. Basically, I also already created some visual material for my personal use and I could play with. 

ML: Yeah, so your project really blends history with modern innovation. How do you balance staying true to the original design while updating it for contemporary use?

LS: Yeah, basically, the original design only consisted of a single weight with uppercase and lowercase and numerals and a few punctuation marks. Although many parameters of the typeface are already defined with these shapes, this gave me a lot of freedom regarding additional characters. So for this I had. I had not to worry too much about the original because they simply didn't exist.

LS: To me, a revival of a typeface is always a personal interpretation within certain boundaries. So at a certain point I just just let it flow and I stop worrying too much if it's a true revival or not, because everyone sees it through their own eyes. And at the end, I'm the designer with my own views, and I'm not here to do painting or drawing by numbers, you know?

ML: Well, thank you so much, for sharing all of your insights on your typographic revival. We've, really enjoyed it. 

LS: Yeah. Thank you very much for inviting me. And, nice to meet you. And all the best.

JB: Lukas Schneider is a German type designer and researcher whose revival of the Airport typeface bridges mid-century modernism with today’s digital design needs. We reached Lukas in Frankfurt, Germany. 

MARVEL’S SUPERHERO LETTERING

JB: Marvel superhero logos—they’re bold, brash, and utterly unapologetic. But have you ever stopped to wonder how these iconic designs came to life? Before the digital revolution invaded with its Photoshop gradients and lifeless fonts, superhero lettering was where the real magic happened. Think 3D type so loud it practically shouted, “I’m here to save the day, in every color imaginable!”

JB: Back in the glory days, these logos were the unsung heroes of comic books. Each one told its own story. Take Ant-Man’s whimsical, shrinking letters from the 1970s—they screamed, “Small but mighty!” Or Daredevil’s brooding, powerful font, practically daring you to flip that first page. They weren’t just titles; they were personality-packed typographic mic drops.

JB: And then the '90s happened. Goodbye hand-crafted masterpieces, hello soulless fonts and overused gradients. It’s as if someone said, “Let’s make this look modern,” and forgot that modern doesn’t have to mean boring. The charm was gone, replaced by designs that felt more corporate PowerPoint than comic book powerhouse. You can almost hear the collective sigh of superheroes everywhere: “This is the logo I’m stuck with?”

JB: But here’s the thing—these logos are more than designs. They’re cultural time machines. Captain America’s 1940s debut? Bold, patriotic, and ready to smack fascism in the face. Wolverine in the 1980s? Pure claw-slashing chaos, with a font that could probably shred your entire comic collection if you weren’t careful. Every logo captured the essence of its era, like a visual soundtrack for superhero adventures.

JB: So next time you stroll past a comic book cover, take a moment. Admire the lettering. Marvel (pun intended) at the creativity that turned simple words into typographic legends. Because if superhero logos teach us one thing, it’s this: when done right, even the smallest letter can pack a super-powered punch.

JB: You've been listening to the Design Atlas podcast. Our show can be heard every other Thursday on your favorite podcasting app. 

ML: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on Design Atlas by visiting our website, designatlaspod.com. I'm Megan Luedke. 

JB: And I'm Jens Bringsjord. Good night.